Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
If the Mongols ruled Europe
#11
Well, the Black Death hit the Mongols earlier than it hit Europe, so the idea behind this timeline is that the Mongols rebuild and are able to hit while Europe is still in the process of recovering. 

I'm also thinking that "Northern Mongols", "Southern Mongols" and "Turkic Nomads" need proper names. Any suggestions?
[Image: CJ_userbar.png]

Board Information and Policies
Affiliation | Coffee Credits | Member Ranks | Awards | Name Changes | Account Deletion | Personal Data Protection

(Thanks to ObsessedwithBirds for the avatar and sig!)
Quote:Nilvafefe: I swear to drink I am not god
My Awards
x2 x2 x5 x3 x1 x3 x5
My Items
Quote
#12
I’m thinking:
Northern Mongols-Grest Tartars
Southern Mongols-Pongos
Turks-Eastern Turks
My Awards
x1 x1 (2017) x1 (2016) x1
My Items
Quote
#13
OK, let's go with those (I'm just gonna assume that 'Grest' was a typo of 'Great' :lol: )

So, as I mentioned in my previous post, the Southern Mongols (or 'Pongos' as we're calling them now) are ruling over vast swathes of eastern Europe, with a vast array of different cultures under a complex system of tributaries and vassals. This can't last, of course - and, once the elderly ruler passes away, the whole thing explodes as three of his sons stake their claims to different parts of the realm: 
 
  • One of the younger sons becomes the ruler of a newly-independent Poland. Let's call him Luke (which he changes to 'Łukasz' upon becoming King of Poland, to bring himself more into line with his new subjects);
  • One of the older sons takes over the southern portions of the realm, along with that 'Roman Empire' title which the Pongos had claimed some 20-30 years earlier. He's effectively restored the Byzantine Empire as a separate state in its own right. Let's call him Mark (which he soon changes to 'Marcos');
  • The final older son takes over what's left of the Pognos (which at this point is basically just 'Greater Hungary'). Let's call this guy John (which he changes to 'Iván');
  • Some of the eastern portions of their territory fall into the hands of the Great Tartars and Eastern Turks. Meanwhile, some of the tributaries just break away and stop paying tribute.

So, all in all, pretty devastating for the Pognos. However, it does set the stage for the resurgence of the Great Tartars. (This is probably more within the spirit of the topic, because they're still less assimilated and more 'Mongol-y': the Great Tartars are still Nomads and practise Islam, whereas the Pognos are settled and practise Christianity). 

From here, my guess is that the Great Tartars will attempt to invade Poland. However, King Łukasz is familar with horse nomad battle tactics, so he knows what to expect and defends well. Then, the Holy Roman Empire will take back the territory which they've just lost to the Pognos. However, while they're busy doing that, the Great Tartars will have another go at the Teutonic Knights - and they'll succeed this time. 

So, after all of that, this is what we end up with: 

Click to enlarge
(Click to enlarge)

So, with our original Mongol realm having broken into four now, where do they go next?
[Image: CJ_userbar.png]

Board Information and Policies
Affiliation | Coffee Credits | Member Ranks | Awards | Name Changes | Account Deletion | Personal Data Protection

(Thanks to ObsessedwithBirds for the avatar and sig!)
Quote:Nilvafefe: I swear to drink I am not god
My Awards
x2 x2 x5 x3 x1 x3 x5
My Items
Quote
#14
Okay, so, here's what I think happens over the next ten years: 
 
  • The Pongos begin to recover from their massive loss of land during the succession crisis. They start out by annexing Bosnia, which had previously stopped paying tribute to them. Then, in the year 1413, they attack the newly-independent Poland, with the aim of re-unifying the realm. However, this war ends a year later in a stalemate, and they're only able to take a small strip of land along the border. 

  • By now, King Łukasz of Poland and King Iván of the Pongos obviously hate each other. King Łukasz decides to sign an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire, for his own protection. He spends the next three years rebuilding - but then, in 1417, he launches his greatest military campaign, defeating the Great Tartars and re-conquering much of the land that formerly belonged to the Teutonic Knights. 

  • In response to the Poland-HRE treaty, King Iván of the Pongos and Basileus Marcos of New Byzantium improve their relations, to an extent. They aren't full allies - they still view each other as 'friendly rivals', and they still pursue their own individual conquests without help from the other - but they agree not to attack one another, and they will protect one another from any external threats. (Not that New Byzantium needs much help from the Pongos: they're doing a good job of restoring their former empire)

  • The Great Tartars continue to push northwards, but they're stopped in their tracks when the forests become too dense for their cavalry. While they're busy with this conquest, the Pongos take advantage, and take back some of their former lands along the Black Sea coast.

So, after all that, here's the map: 

Click to enlarge
(Click to enlarge)

By the way, by this point, Poland is probably the most assimilated and least Mongol-y of our 'Mongol' realms. With the exception of a few folk tales and a general importance of cavalry in their military, they really aren't practising Mongol culture any more. The Pongos and New Byzantium, by contrast, still practise a mix of Mongol and local cultures, although they're both fully Christianised (Roman Catholic in the case of the Pongos, and Greek Orthodox in the case of New Byzantium). That leaves the Great Tartars as the least assimilated realm: they're still practising Sunni Islam (which is spreading rapidly among the local population), and they're basically still horse nomads.
[Image: CJ_userbar.png]

Board Information and Policies
Affiliation | Coffee Credits | Member Ranks | Awards | Name Changes | Account Deletion | Personal Data Protection

(Thanks to ObsessedwithBirds for the avatar and sig!)
Quote:Nilvafefe: I swear to drink I am not god
My Awards
x2 x2 x5 x3 x1 x3 x5
My Items
Quote
#15
With greater public support from their subjects, I’d bet on the Pongos having the upper hand against the Great Tartars.
My Awards
x1 x1 (2017) x1 (2016) x1
My Items
Quote
#16
Probably. The Great Tartars are in a rather weak position here, and they'll have real trouble expanding any further. They can't expand any further north because it's all densely-forested land that's not suitable for their cavalry; they can't expand east because they'll run into their own allies (the Eastern Turks); and they'll have trouble expanding south or west because Poland and the Pongos have been busy building castles along the border for the past 70 years. It might be possible for the Great Tartars to expand a bit in that direction, but they're not overwhelming Poland or the Pongos any more. 

I'm not sure where I should take this next, but I do fancy the idea of either the Pongos or New Byzantium building a massive navy and trying to expand into Southern Italy :lol: . (Although, Italy's probably more advanced in this timeline than it was in reality: Constantinople falls earlier, so its Greek scholars migrate to Italy earlier, so the Renaissance kicks in and spreads earlier)
[Image: CJ_userbar.png]

Board Information and Policies
Affiliation | Coffee Credits | Member Ranks | Awards | Name Changes | Account Deletion | Personal Data Protection

(Thanks to ObsessedwithBirds for the avatar and sig!)
Quote:Nilvafefe: I swear to drink I am not god
My Awards
x2 x2 x5 x3 x1 x3 x5
My Items
Quote
#17
The Renaissance is not as progressive as you’d think; They had witch burning. Besides, Italy was heavily divided during the Renaissance so invaders would find them easy pickings.
My Awards
x1 x1 (2017) x1 (2016) x1
My Items
Quote
#18
I don't think it would have been that easy. Though they were small in size, they did have relatively high populations for the era (over 100,000 in some cases). Also, they were protected by natural barriers: Venice had its lagoon, while the others had seas and mountains. Pretty much the only way an external power could attack them was over the sea - which would have been no small feat, since they had large navies themselves. (For example, the Ottomans went to war with Venice repeatedly - and, while they often won these wars and took territories from them, they were never able to conquer Venice outright)

So, I don't see the Pongos or New Byzantium adding Venice, Florence or Genoa to their empire. They may still be able to establish a foothold on the Italian peninsula; however, it would be by grabbing one of these city-states' more vulnerable possessions, rather than by invading a city-state itself. 

(Of course, there's always central and southern Italy. However, central Italy was occupied by the Papal States at this time: the Pongos are Catholic so they definitely won't go to war here, and I suspect New Byzantium would also stay away to avoid alienating Catholic allies. Meanwhile, southern Italy is unified under the Kingdom of Naples. Or maybe Sicily, which is controlled by the Kingdom of Aragon?)
[Image: CJ_userbar.png]

Board Information and Policies
Affiliation | Coffee Credits | Member Ranks | Awards | Name Changes | Account Deletion | Personal Data Protection

(Thanks to ObsessedwithBirds for the avatar and sig!)
Quote:Nilvafefe: I swear to drink I am not god
My Awards
x2 x2 x5 x3 x1 x3 x5
My Items
Quote


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)