Srs Bsns Is celebrating bad people's deaths OK?

[Kyng]

Earlier this week, Jean-Marie Le Pen died at the age of 96. He was, by all accounts, not a good person: he espoused extreme right-wing views and repeatedly engaged in Holocaust denial. Even his own daughter (who remains noticeably to the right of mainstream conservatives) has gone to great lengths to distance herself from him.

Nevertheless, in the linked topic, I refused to outright celebrate his death - instead, stating the following:

On the one hand, I'm not dancing on his grave: I don't have it in me to celebrate people's deaths like that. On the other hand, I am glad that he's no longer able to spread his ideology of extremism and hatred.

With that being said, this has motivated me to think: is it ever OK to celebrate the deaths of bad people? A couple of points to consider, just to start us off:

• Is it different if a person not only believes terrible things, but has also done terrible things? For example, I remember that when Osama bin Laden was killed in 2011, there were widespread celebrations of his death: are those celebrations more justified because he masterminded terrorist attacks that killed thousands of innocent people?
  
  
• Is it different if the person celebrating was directly affected by the bad person who's just died? For example: would it be OK for victims of serious crimes (e.g. rape victims, or the friends and families of murder victims) to celebrate the death of the criminal? Or if an oppressive dictator was overthrown and killed, would it be OK for people from their country to explicitly celebrate the dictator's death - as opposed to merely celebrating their new-found freedom?

Myself, I'm not going to say "It's never OK to celebrate anybody's death - ever", especially with reference to the second bullet point (because I've never been in either of those situations - and, I sincerely hope I never will be). Nevertheless, celebrating people's deaths - even obviously bad people - is something I'm deeply uncomfortable with (except in the case of those who have committed the most heinous crimes and violations of basic human rights).

What are your thoughts?

[Bryn]

When I heard news that Peter Tobin had died, a part of me felt delighted (as he was a truly evil man and had no fibre of humanity in him at all).

(for those that don't know, Tobin was one of Scotland's most notorious serial killers)

[MamaFrankie]

As a true crime fan, i have heard of Peter Tobin.

My answer is yes. They destroyed lives so why should we feel sadness at their deaths?

[slooroo]

With the Jean-Marie Le Pen example (I posted the thread mainly because while he was far right his influence has been rather large on the right wing in general in ways) I wasn't sad he died but I wasn't necessarily cheering either. I just thought it was an interesting fact. Unfortunately his Holocaust denial and whitewashing of the Vichy regime still influences many on the far right (and even bleeds into the rest of the right to some extent) but he's far from the only figure that has caused this. In a moral sense I think it's fine for say Marine Le Pen to be sad because no matter what Jean-Marie was he was still her father and I doubt many will deny someone the right to mourn their father. I would find it sus if a general person with zero family connection to him to be sad though since that probably means they sympathize with his political views. On the other hand excessive celebration over his death would come off as odd to me too. Perhaps if Jean-Marie took power and caused even 1% of the damage Hitler did I would understand but ultimately he was an influential but still failed politician and his main legacy for now is still the fact his daughter leads one of the most powerful right wing parties in France right now.

[Jarkko]

My take is this, and it's based on Scripture. (Proverbs 24:17-18 always comes to mind in these situations, and there are others)

It is good to celebrate the end of someone's ability to do further damage. But their death in and of itself is not something to erupt in jubilation over, especially if they are unrepentant about it, because you know full well where they are headed.

It's a very fine line to walk as well, but something that Dietrich Bonhoeffer - known for his practical theology of Christian discipleship - kept in mind even when he was trying to assassinate Hitler. My friend Josh also posted this online when bin Laden was taken out. It's not something I feel even the most committed Christians are 100% consistent with (and I know this to be true of myself), but that's the sinful nature asserting itself.

Sometimes it's even to be expected. On the topic of serial killers, I can imagine much the same response to the death of Robert Pickton (Canada's most infamous serial killer) in prison by families of his victims - or even people in Metro Vancouver in general - as Bryn and Mama gave about Peter Tobin.

On top of this, the problem with celebrating someone's death isn't just an ethical issue, but also a practical one in some cases - say the person is the leader of a nation or of some paranational group that claims to be freedom-fighting. If the person was popular in his or her country at time of death, going all out in celebration over their death is only going to make them mad(der) at you and quite possibly make the situation worse. This happened with bin Laden.

I realize this view puts me in the minority, but I'd be more likely to call them a damned fool in anger (and they would literally be damned) over them not turning from their grievous sin than to celebrate, even if in my own experience, people guilty of the deaths of millions or even hundreds of thousands never do repent.

[JHG]

Only if they really deserve it. You'll know they deserve it if they would get a Totally evil! and higher on the villain scale.

[Shiny Star]

I don’t see a problem with it if the person has caused considerable harm, such as dictators. I think it is sad when people do it for people who may not be their cup of tea.

[Bryn]

Well, unsurprisingly, Le Pen's death was celebrated by millions of people in France...

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20250...ontroversy

But then again, way back in history people freely celebrated Hitler's death for what he did...

[Kyng]

Another case I can think of is back in 2013, when on the week of Margaret Thatcher's death, the Wizard of Oz's "Ding-Dong The Witch Is Dead" reached #2 in the UK charts:

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/si...0414/7501/

I have to admit that I found this pretty amusing at the time . However, I suppose it is technically a "celebration of her death" - so, I think it's fair to ask whether or not it's OK. Myself, I think it's so tongue-in-cheek that I can't bring myself to object to it - even though I would have objected to more direct celebrations of her death.

(But then, we have to ask: where do we draw the line?)