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In the thread about human lifespan potentially being limited to 150 years, made the following comments:

Quote:then you have one final problem to overcome, the limitations of the human brain, we're already running into issues with stuff like Alzheimer's and other memory related disorders that occur as you age. this could be corrected with more advanced technology... and that is the holy grail, the mind upload. but that's a very long ways off and brings up the question of souls and if that's still you.

For those of you who don't know what this "Mind upload" is about, it's a hypothetical far-future technology, which creates a computer program that does exactly what your mind does - thus, effectively forming a computer simulation of you. The attraction, of course, is that this code could potentially run forever, without being tied to a physical body - so, you'd effectively become immortal. However, as Spook points out, this does raise an interesting philosophical question: would your uploaded mind still be 'you'?

I guess it's hard to answer that question definitively, without knowing exactly what mind uploading will entail. We'd certainly want your mind to be uploaded with your memories and experiences intact, so that it wakes up thinking that it is you - but, we don't know whether it's possible for that to happen 100%. Perhaps we'll be able to get it 99% accurate, so that your uploaded mind is a close approximation of you - but ultimately still an approximation. Would that still be 'you' - and, if so, how close does the approximation have to be before it can be considered to be 'you'? And if your uploaded mind isn't still 'you'... then, it may well still have more in common with you than "the you of 10 years ago" did, but most of us will agree that "the you of 10 years ago" is still a version of 'you'. So, how do we sort that out?

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble here, so I'll just finish and ask for your thoughts on the matter :P .
No. Because it's just a computer with our memories. Unless we can consicously control the computer, I don't think that thing will be you.
(07-13-2021, 03:42 AM)Photon Wrote: [ -> ]No. Because it's just a computer with our memories. Unless we can consicously control the computer, I don't think that thing will be you.

We can't - but maybe the computer can consciously control itself ;) ?
(07-13-2021, 04:25 PM)Kyng Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-13-2021, 03:42 AM)Photon Wrote: [ -> ]No. Because it's just a computer with our memories. Unless we can consicously control the computer, I don't think that thing will be you.

We can't - but maybe the computer can consciously control itself ;) ?

Hmm...good point. In that case, it's almost you, but not you
From what I've heard on this 'mind uploading' fiasco, is that it's pretty much just mapping and copying your brain no?
Isn't it more 'cloning' than uploading?

I could see them MAYBE figuring out a way to 'properly upload' people someday, maybe, but it's so disconnected from where we are now I'd say it's probably a millennia away.

Also, no one is uploading my brain. I'll happily just die someday, thanks.
(07-14-2021, 02:27 AM)Photon Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-13-2021, 04:25 PM)Kyng Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-13-2021, 03:42 AM)Photon Wrote: [ -> ]No. Because it's just a computer with our memories. Unless we can consicously control the computer, I don't think that thing will be you.

We can't - but maybe the computer can consciously control itself ;) ?

Hmm...good point. In that case, it's almost you, but not you

I guess one way to put it to the test would be to get my (real) friends and family to talk to my uploaded mind. Would they still get the same pleasure that they get from talking to me - or would they just get an 'uncanny valley' effect that creeps them out?

(07-14-2021, 04:35 AM)MegaphoneStallone Wrote: [ -> ]From what I've heard on this 'mind uploading' fiasco, is that it's pretty much just mapping and copying your brain no?
Isn't it more 'cloning' than uploading?

I could see them MAYBE figuring out a way to 'properly upload' people someday, maybe, but it's so disconnected from where we are now I'd say it's probably a millennia away.

Also, no one is uploading my brain. I'll happily just die someday, thanks.

Yeah, like you say, this is probably centuries away at the very least, and possibly millennia. Certainly not something that'll happen within our lifetime, so I'd say you're safe from it :lol: .
I think that it will be the first form of immortality, which will probably be available before 2100 :D
(07-14-2021, 08:31 AM)Photon Wrote: [ -> ]I think that it will be the first form of immortality, which will probably be available before 2100 :D

Well, maybe there will be early versions in or around 2100 :P . However, human minds are such complex things that I can't imagine the early versions will be much good. I expect it'll take many years after that before one is made that could convince the person's loved ones (and at that point, perhaps it's fair to say that that person's uploaded mind is still them :lol: !)
To answer the question directly: no. Humans are more than just thoughts and a brain. If you upload someone's personality to a computer, it might act like them, but it will never perfectly do so. And that's because humans change. Our interests and passions, our friendships and environments. You can take a person's personality from one snapshot moment of their life and do a good mimic, perhaps, but you can't account for the changes they would have made to their life because there's no way of simulating that.
So here's what I think, I think there's a crucial step that needs to be considered.  Is it a one and done all all at once upload? Because as far as I know, to do that would fry the brain in the process.

If it's a gradual replacement of neurons with artificial ones to allow a natural transition? Maybe...

Here's the biggest problem.  People are primarily the byproduct of the memories, thoughts, and experiences, a simulation would be fundamentally different and if you can't upload while transferring the consciousness to it then it's just a copy.  One that will begin diverging as soon as the upload is complete.

Personally I like to think it would be better to first augment your brain slowly so your memory impulses are stored electronically outside the grey matter.  Then begin copying parts of it, ideally this will allow a natural transition over time.  But unfortunately any speculation beyond this is outside my own areas of knowledge.

Personally I like the idea of using clones to spread my consciousness over multiple bodies as a hive mind first then make backups to allow as little interruption as possible and avoid deviant copies with their own unique personalities based on me.

This at least isn't as far off as complete upload.  In fact we've already linked two people together, first professor Mann and his wife using in arm chips to physically feel the others nerve impulses over distance, the more recently a few years ago with having one person lift another person's arm over a mile away using similar technology.

Linking one brain with a blank might be doable, effectively, grow it in a vat, with trancivers already connected to the key areas, have the autonomic functions work independent but the rest linked to the core, and repeat.  This is all theoretical of course but it would take some of the workload off since the human brain has proven amazingly adaptable.  It'd be like if your computer could detect new hardware and write drivers rather than downloading it, improving them as you used the new device.
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